Our New Search and Social Integration Explained


If you haven't heard yet, PitchEngine and Zog Media, Inc., have partnered to start a search engine and social media tool for businesses.

As the Phoenix Business Journal reports: 

Zog, which jumped back into the Internet marketing space last month, developed a system to enhance what PitchEngine does — namely, distribute company information via social media.

The model uses language as a determining factor in distributing press releases. The technology matches up the words and style of language used in a press release and compares it against numerous social media sites, seeking the best fit for the release based on how it is written or its use of video or audio clips.

That means a release can be written for social media that may find its best home on Facebook or other sites, with the goal of not inundating various forms of social media where it may not match with the people using a particular service.

Jeff Herzog, founder and CEO of Zog, said the idea to integrate technologies is a reflection of the growing complexities of Internet marketing.

“It used to be just word combinations and knowing a bit about the algorithms would get an optimization result, and now it’s combining with video and other things,” he said.

Marketing firms have used optimization for years to push their news to the top of search engines such as those developed by Google Inc.

Targeting social media outlets requires a whole new approach to gain maximum benefit, said Jason Kintzler, founder and CEO of PitchEngine.

Social media is playing an increasingly large role in marketing as more companies target it as part of their plans, and more people are using it to get information about companies and products, Kintzler said.

“When we put out content, we have to make sure it travels well across all social media,” he said.

Herzog, founder and former CEO of iCrossing in Scottsdale, brought Zog into SEO marketing recently when his noncompete agreement with iCrossing ended and it was sold to Hearst Corp. for $325 million. Zog Media sold a social media site of its own, ZooLoo.com, and remains active in other social media.

PitchEngine, founded in 2008, has worked with more than 26,000 companies to bring their news releases to a social media platform.

The new partnership will feature Zog’s marketing component working with PitchEngine’s ability to hit social media sites.

It is designed to get information in front of consumers who would relate to it best, Herzog said. 

You can read more: Zog, PitchEngine collaborate on social media search tool - Phoenix Business Journal


What does all this mean for my brand or clients?

It means we're bringing the industry something it's never seen. Search engine optimization is only a piece of the puzzle anymore, and if that's all you're doing to increase exposure for your press releases or other content - it's time to rethink things. And you can forget trying to learn everything from scratch about seo and keyword optimization or paying big bucks to get it. This tool will take care of it for you. Promote your blog, your product or your garage band.

You focus on story-telling. We'll take care of the distribution.

I'm extremely excited for the potential implications here. Services like PR Web from Vocus were innovative in their day, but now it's our turn to lead the charge into the future of distribution. Currently, PR pros and brands pay a minimum of $200 to other services to send a search optimized press release that includes just one photo. This is social media people...it's about sharing!! With PitchEngine, you'll be able to continue adding all the multimedia elements you want (which are sharable from your release) AND add Supercharged SEO for just $20 per Pitch™.

Seriously? Yes, it's just that good. 

And, PitchEngine's Supercharged SEO launches in just a few days. Follow us on Twitter for updates.

Oh, and be sure take advantage of our new Agency and Enterprise Pricing!

State of the Pitch™

We're just hours away from launching the new PitchEngine and I'm thrilled to be the one that gets to do it!

With our new SEO capabilities (announced yesterday), PitchEngine now enables businesses and organizations to get the word out using social and search optimization.

What's the new PitchEngine all about?
  • Spread the news about a business, organization or event and easily share it with your social networks, search engines or next door neighbor. It’s the new way to get found.
  • A Pitch™ is a neat little package of content you want to share with the world. It can be an announcement, press release, resume or maybe the recipe for your grandma’s cookies. What goes in it is up to you, the nutty power of how it works is up to us.
  • Anyone can use PitchEngine to tell their story and get found. We’ve built in features to serve the multinational PR agency, small business owner or weekend garage band. Journalists and bloggers use it to discover sources and find compelling content.
  • Easily create a search engine optimized Pitch™ and then choose who you'd like to share it with: media, bloggers, social networks, email lists and more!
What we've learned and what I think.
People have websites and blogs. But those sites are stuck on an island. They have to get people to come there. So, they try to learn SEO techniques they can implement to get search users to find them. Then, they go to social networks and try to draw their friends and followers onto their island. Not an easy task.

Businesses also look to Facebook and Twitter as places to interact with their consumers or customers. While this has amazing power, it's difficult to get your message across, meaning - these social sites just aren't good story-telling platforms.

Enter the Pitch. It can be an announcement, press release, band bio or maybe the recipe for your grandma’s cookies, whatever. Point is, it is a way for you to package up the story - the whole story - and share it with context. And, it travels around to all the places you need it to be.
  • It plays nice with your website or blog - you post it on PitchEngine and it will auto-post to your site or blog.
  • It' social media optimized and integrates easily with your networks - One click and it's on your Brand's Facebook Fan Page
  • People can engage and interact with your Pitch - Bloggers and other readers can follow a brand or direct-message the Pitch creator to get more info
  • It's living! Unlike a press release, once you publish it can be edited, updated and found on search engines
  • It's search engine optimized - Read more about our amazing new proprietary technology thanks to Zog Media 
  • It's fun! There's a reason universities are implementing it into their Communications curriculum, it fosters good, creative writing.

The new platform is the result of thousands of really smart, creative users who showed us that there's more to marketing then print ads and press releases.

Welcome to the start of something, I think, will be big.
It's been a joy to interact with each of you on a personal level as we build what we're so passionate about!

Jason Kintzler
Founder/CEO, PitchEngine 

 

CNN Stops Using AP Content


Are You Still Spending Money on Wire Services?

It's been happening for the past few years, but finally a large news organization had the courage to do it. For decades, the Associated Press was the premier vehicle for news distribution. It was the quickest way to "simultaneously" distribute information to news outlets. PR wire services like PR Newswire, Business Wire, Marketwire and PRWeb all rely the AP to distribute their customer's press releases. They have to pay to do this, which means you pay the wire services to do it as well (with markup). Now that news outlets have been dropping the AP, how does this change your outlook on the future of press release distribution? Is it still worth a minimum of $200 per press release to send text and an image through the wire?

Just as music distribution came to a screeching halt, so too will press release distribution. Musicians (and brands) don't need to rely on someone else to do the distributing - they just need a platform to do it from. The new PitchEngine launches next month.

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Co-op SEO and the Future of Websites (and blogs)

Way back in the early days of PitchEngine (like 2009), people thought we were crazy to offer this service for free. "I can publish search engine optimized pitches for free, really?" Sales reps from traditional PR distribution services were even quoted as saying, "there's a reason it's free." - Implying that it doesn't perform well. Little did they know, the model was well beyond their pay grade.

The Idea: "Co-op SEO"
The terminology came from one of our developers (Thanks, Dave), but the model has been in place since our inception. Basically, it's everyone's intention to tell their story and to share it. Which brings up the whole "viral" aspect of the platform.

Here's how it works:
1. People come to PitchEngine to get the word out about something.
2. They create a pitch (which might be an announcement, a virtual brochure, a press release or even an ad)
3. They share their pitch 

Before PitchEngine, you could:
A. Optimize your own content (which is difficult to do without some real knowledge of SEO)
B. Pay a service who pays to have your content listed in search engines (expensive)
C. Get coverage on a popular blog or online news portal like Mashable that has great SEO juice (aka Google PageRank)

So, what happened that changed all that?
PitchEngine provided a platform for people to get their word out. Each of the 27,000 companies that use the service had the same goal - to share their pitch. Aside from optimizing the structure of the site and the pitches themselves, shear volume and traffic drove our authority with Google and other search engines. Meaning, a brand (or person) could benefit by leveraging the crowd. The more one company shares their pitch, the more views it has, the more backlinks it provides, and so on. That's what we've dubbed, "Co-op SEO." It's the power of the users, the crowd, that makes the engine rev.

How does this help you?
I'm not an SEO expert, but I've learned from some of the best. Let's say you're a small business owner who wants your brand to appear in Google when someone searches your product or service in your area. If you make a blog or website, you have to find ways to get people to visit your site in order to drive traffic there, thus affecting your search indexing. But, if that same brand simply creates a pitch on PitchEngine, and includes the product or service in their headline as keywords, they will typically appear on Google within 30 minutes for the search terms.

But what if you're a big business with lots of SEO already? Spread the net. Regardless of size, you need backlinks. The more content pointing to your site from sites with authority the better. Use PitchEngine to centralize the launch of your stories. The more content, the better which leads me to the next thing...

Social Media Optimization
Sites like Facebook and Twitter can help you spread your brand's net even wider. Someone searches for you, they'll find your Twitter profile or Facebook brand page. This is another example of why you need accounts on these sites. But what do your consumers, journalists or readers do once they get there? Are they seeing exactly the stories that are important to you? How do you get them to your website or blog? Perhaps the better question is: How can you tell them your story?

For a few years, the blog (or website) has been the place to expand and give people the real "back story" about you or your business. Then came social networks that were great places to deliver and share messages - but not really that great for telling your story. That's where the Pitch™ comes in. It enables a brand to share their story in it's entirety and with context. Unlike your blog, which is on an island, the Pitch is mobile and travels around to all the places you need it to - email, social networks, search engines, etc., It's not just distribution, it's self publishing.

Why am I sharing all this? 
Transparency is a brand currency on the social web. I'm sharing our recipe with you because I think it's important to understand. The "magic" that the middlemen used to sell you is simply becoming snake oil. We're often compared to PR distribution services, which is okay, but it's apples to oranges. Their magic? It's called Comtex, and every big PR wire service uses it to bolster their numbers. Comtex takes their "news" feeds and spreads them around to their member sites. Does that drive business to you? I'll let you be the judge on that one.

It's also very timely. When we drop the curtain on the new PitchEngine platform next month, I want everyone to be prepared to take things to the next level. Social media has changed the way we communicate. I think PitchEngine has the potential to change the way we publish - maybe even the way we think of our blogs and websites.

Evolving the SMR and Ending "Word Doc PR"

I'm not shy about proclaiming PitchEngine as a critical player in the adoption of the Social Media Release (SMR). But it's also been our success that has led to the cannibalization of the SMR. Every PR service claims to offer their own version, but as our most experienced users understand, there is no genuine comparison. Which has led me to veer away from the very name that put us on the map. With the launch of our new platform just days away, I'm setting the record straight.

Over the past year, I've had the opportunity to sit down and visit face-to-face with PR professionals from many industries. Each, with their own ideas and misconceptions of social media. Sarah Evans and I relish every chance we get to set the record straight and help communicators "get real" about social media and their public relations efforts. I find myself repeating what has become a new mantra of mine, "In PR distribution, if there is an easy-button, don't push it!"

A Little History
When I set out to create PitchEngine a couple of years ago, I never imagined it would be as robust and dynamic as it has become. I set out to develop a tool to make the workflow of public relations and media professionals easier and well, better. As a former journalist turned PR guy, I was annoyed at the antiquated methods of exchanging word doc attachments, ftp-ing photos and all the other "rigid" ways of sharing content.

I had to start by creating a new "press release" format that enabled us to include all sorts of pieces that we needed to share - pdfs, powerpoint presentations, videos, images, audio, etc., As I researched what was out there, I discovered that something similar had been conceptualized by Todd Defren. It was called the Social Media Press Release (SMPR). It's important to point out - I didn't build PitchEngine around this concept. At the time, it didn't have much adoption, it was simply a mock-up of how something like this should look. The SMPR name seemed like a good fit at the time and made a lot of sense to me as a PR guy. So, I dropped the "press" form the name and called our template the Social Media Release (SMR). Little did I know, the very openness of Todd's great concept would also be its biggest challenge.

Muddy Waters and a Slippery Slope
Todd is a thought leader in the industry. I respect what Todd developed in the SMPR concept and for all those who pushed the idea out to the industry (Chris Heuer, Brian Solis, Scott Monty, among others). Those who adopted the idea and implemented it in some fashion were early-adopters. However, as PitchEngine grew in popularity and more and more people flocked to build and share SMRs (24,000+ brands, 68,000 SMRs already), the industry and its established PR services also embraced the Todd's SMPR idea. Unfortunately, in many ways the "SM" (social media) in SMPR  has become nothing more than buzzwords for the sake of marketing up-sell.

I've been very open about my views on the misconceptions/misrepresentation of the SMR:

  • You cannot make a press release social.
    - Associated Press (AP) format is not conversational or social.
    - If you start by opening a Microsoft Word, you're probably missing the point.
  • Share buttons do not make a press release social.
    - Just because you have the option to share a link to a bunch of text, doesn't mean you should.
  • Multimedia does not make a press release social, it makes it more engaging.
    - I applaud those people who take the time to make their content more engaging and the services that enable them to do it (affordably).
  • Social means it should be living and in real-time.
    - It shouldn't "die" once you send it out through a wire service with no ability to edit, add to or create conversations. 

Moving Forward and Staking Our Claim
I desperately want to avoid nit-picking our way through the PR landscape about what the SMR or SMPR is defined as and what it provides. So, we're going a different direction. The PitchEngine Social Media Release will be reinvented and reintroduced as the Pitch™. Yes, Tom Forenski. Yes, Peter Shankman. The traditional press release is dead! At least, to us it is. I call it "word doc PR" and it's as played out as Christmas carols in June. Boss require it still? Just include it as an attachment if you have to. Or send it through a traditional service and embed a link to something much better.

Whether you're pitching a 3-billion dollar product to the world, or telling your neighbors there's a garage sale on Tuesday, a pitch is a pitch. There will be good ones, and there will be bad ones - we're all about enabling you to pitch whatever it is you want to pitch in a concise, cool and more conversational way.

In the coming weeks, PitchEngine will roll out more creative tools to help businesses and organizations tell their stories, get found on search engines and interact with media, consumers and other online influencers. It's time to put those documents in box, figuratively speaking, and take your pitch to the cloud. Pitch stories, pitch yourself, pitch anything. This is PitchEngine.

 

Follow me @jasonkintzler for more!

Agencies: 5 Reasons to Switch It Up

I spend a fair amount of time traveling the country speaking at conferences, events and meet-ups of all sizes. Some have a social media slant, some have a public relations spin, but for the most part, they all are designed to provide marketers with insight and hopefully, inspiration to take their client or brand to new places using new media.

Today, I was asked for some parting thoughts for a group of advertising and PR agencies and my response really seemed to strike a nerve, but in a god way (for some). So, I thought I would share it.

Agencies: If you are worried about billable hours, you need to rethink this.

Here are 5 reasons to switch it up:

1. Someone wants it more (and will do it cheaper)
I speak to rooms full of young, social media savvy upstarts who would LOVE to be doing this for money. They are learning, absorbing and picking-off clients from agencies who thought they had it all locked-up. If you don't love what you're doing and want to kick-ass on behalf of your client, then you shouldn't be in this game. Your clients should have your attention full time, not during the hours of X and X. If you think your agency has more "expertise" than someone else, you're dead wrong. Pay for performance or by retainer seem like a better way to go when constant engagement is required.

2. Easy-buttons are for lazy people
If you're still doing things the same way as you always have, it's called laziness. Just because you've been able to bill out thousands of hours in the past, doesn't mean you're going to get to in the future. If it's just easier to send a press release blindly to an email list, then you're doing your client a disservice, even if they're asking for it. Do some homework, be creative and do things right. Otherwise, you shouldn't be doing them

3. Your clients will look outside the relationship
Everyday, agencies call us to ask about PitchEngine. In addition, many of them ask for suggestions for new PR firms that "get" social media. (Yes, I recommend them to the ones I know and trust). Point is, if you're not taking the initiative on their behalf, their going to find someone who does one way or another. Gone are the days where "bigger means better" from an agency perspective. If you're getting by on this, hang on while it lasts.

4. Your old boss doesn't get it
"I have to do things this way because that's what my boss says to do." If you truly love what you're doing, start your own agency and do it right. Take it as a lesson learned - here's what not to do. If advertising or public relations is your passion, then do it right. Be scrappy, earn respect and win clients. Hard work always wins. 

5. So that you can sleep at night
I don't care if I work at McDonalds, I will work my butt off and try to do better everyday I'm there. Otherwise, why bother? If you're just going through the motions then you probably aren't truly happy with what you're doing. If you own an agency, take a hard look at what's happening outside your office walls. You owe it to your employees to provide inspiration and challenge. If not, you're going to lose them.

Do you work at an agency? Do you own one? What do you think?
For those of you that need inspiration, contact me anytime. :)

Twitter: @jasonkintzler | Facebook

 

Retire the Wire? PR Goes Unplugged.

I've always loved hearing my favorite musicians go "unplugged." The sound and feel of a warm guitar is something special and can give new meaning to a great song. The same can be said for public relations.

Back in the day, the wires provided "simultaneous distribution" of press releases. Truth is, today they still do...for a price.  But, social media has changed the way information gets delivered. The need for a third-party publisher is becoming questionable at best. Case in point, Google.

 

One of the main drivers behind the need for wire service distribution are the SEC's (Securities and Exchange Commission) regulations for disclosure.

Once upon a time, corporations were mandated to use wire services to distribute earnings statements simultaneously. There just wasn't a better method of telling people - all at once - information pertaining to stock prices, critical product announcements, etc., So, wire services got BIG.

But recently, the SEC announced that, in some cases, corporate websites are deemed compliant with public disclosure requirements. My friend, and CEO of Q4 Web Systems, Darrell Heaps, sums up REG FD nicely.

In a recent press release, Google spelled out their plans: "Google intends to make future announcements regarding its financial performance exclusively through its investor relations website." (http://investor.google.com/)

What does this mean for the wire services? My guess is, a lot of lobbying to keep "simultaneous distribution" under their control. But as more and more companies enter a more social-minded ecosystem, they will continue to realize that sharing corporate news and marketing directly to investors, consumers and other influencers is viable. They'll start to seriously rethink the process and the millions of dollars they currently spend with the "middle men" in the news delivery process.

It happened in the music industry. And it's happening in the newspaper industry. Is PR next? 

Will software platforms like PitchEngine power PR publishing in the future?

What do you think?

@jasonkintzler

 

 

We Need a Leader

photo by Laura Gainor

I had a great time at Marquette University this past week, speaking to about 300 people as part of the PR + Social Media Summit put on by Comet Branding in Milwaukee. The twitter stream during my presentation was incredible and once again demonstrated to me that people are ripe for change in the PR industry.

But who the heck is going to lead this change? With all due respect to the PRSA, PR Week and others, I'm just not seeing anyone step up to the plate and tell it like it is, for the sake of the profession. Is it a big secret? If you want to be part of a sinking ship, do things like you've done them for the past decade and see where it takes you. Yes, I do realize that you made money doing it that way, plenty of money - but that's going to change. If you're still writing traditional press releases read my last post: 5 Ways to kill the Press Release

The thought leaders do exist
Brian Solis, Peter Shankman and Sarah Evans are doing what they can to open the eyes of an eager industry. I too am jumping at every opportunity to inject some passion into the process. Truth is, it's the youngsters that are tasked with getting it done. As agencies begin to hire, they look for college grads to bring their "social media swagger" and inject it into their shop. But who's teaching the kids?

The good news is there are a few Universities being proactive. They're teaching social media skills and story telling (for people, not robots) right alongside AP-style and the fundamentals of public relations. Schools like the University of Oregon, Kent State, Wisconsin, Auburn and Marquette (one of my favs) have integrated PitchEngine into their curriculum to help students tell better stories. Professors like Bill Sledzik (Kent State) and Gee Ekachai (Marquette) who are giving graduates something more than fundamentals to take with them into the workforce. It's been so successful for students that we're creating a university software package to make it easier for schools to teach.

Who is succeeding now?
I believe it's the smaller PR firms with creativity and grit that have big clients clamoring for the next generation PR. Social media aside, they understand that the PR process isn't cookie cutter and that good PR doesn't stop with a lead list, search engine optimization or the press release.

On the plane back from Denver I realized that now is the time to change course. I am recommitting myself to helping those who see into the future and feel ill-equipped. For those that don't get a whole lot of inspiration form the pillars of public relations community.

I'll start with this blog and next year's speaking schedule, but I won't stop there. I'm going to make it a point to rain on the parade of the "easy-button" generation of template-driven, over-optimized bad PR people. Change won't come from recognition, it will come through adoption.

Who's with me?
@jasonkintzler

 

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5 Ways To Kill The Press Release

I've waited almost two years to pull the trigger on a post about the death of the traditional press release. Why? Because for the longest time, I thought it was just hype. Now that I've made the rounds speaking at PR, marketing and journalism events and conferences I am convinced - it's time to face the music. 

No one likes to write them.
No one likes to receive them.
No one likes to read them.

In 1906, the press release was born out of necessity. It was actually very high-tech back in the day, serving as a "plug-and-play" for journalists who wished to typeset the text right into their newspaper article. With the internet came the ability to "simultaneously distribute" press information, which led to where we are today - an antiquated way of communicating news and announcements. But there is hope for the future, as long as we ditch the traditional methods and get savvy. Here's how:


1.  Stop writing for your CEO and start writing for your audience.

Anytime someone criticizes the "death of the traditional press release" idea, they always point to good writing being the solution. But if you're writing what the corporate mandate dictates, you're likely missing the point.

Beth Mansfield, Director of Public Relations at CKE Restaurants is masterful at writing for the Carls Jr.'s key demographic, an 18 to 34-year-old male. Headlines like, "Badda Bing, Badda Boom: Carl's Jr. Goes Italian With New Parmesan Chicken Sandwich" or "Bourbon: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore" are written for who they're trying to reach, their consumer. 

"The days of a dry, boring product press release are gone. We keep Carl’s Jr. and Hardee’s guests coming back by having innovative products. We have to be innovative and engaging in our press releases. By speaking to our target audience of young, hungry guys in our press release, we encourage dialogue and see far broader pick up of our product news," said Mansfield.

 

If the goal is SEO, then don't bother trying to write to your audience. If the goal is to be engaging and to get readers to share and talk about your content, then write what you would want to read. What the SEO gurus don't tell you is that Facebook has already surpassed Google and now drives more traffic to key sites than Google. This means that soon, a well shared post will be just as important as an "SEO optimized" robotic headline and subhead that is heavy on the keyword links.

Besides, the logic is simple: You can't make a press release social. Traditional, AP-style press releases just aren't conversational. You can't cram a bunch of text and a word doc into twitter and expect it to play. Companies are now driving sales through social interaction with consumers. That's a metric we can leverage.

2.  Include shareable content
If your producing a traditional press release and then adding an image or a video, make sure those assets are shareable. What is the purpose of including assets if a journalist or blogger can't use them? Many wire services offer multimedia up-sell options, but few of them actually allow you to embed video from YouTube or photos from Flickr. This is part of the social media integration I always talk about. And one of the big differences between traditional and social releases.

Tom Foremski proclaimed in a recent post, "Why are people unable to understand the value of putting links into PR copy? Do they know how to create a link and embed it in their copy?"

3.  Throw out the traditional metrics
 
So, you're measuring the success of your PR efforts by calculating the publications ad value equivalent? Hmm. Makes sense, since the traditional advertising model is working so well...Yikes.

There are a million...okay, a hundred social media monitoring sites out there. Start tracking how your release travels and performs across the social web. Stop relying on services that autopost your content on "downstream websites" as proof of performance.

4.  Stop using Word
Seems simple, but it's a buzz kill from the get-go.

"Sweet, I've completed my document and now I have a file attachment to send around. People love downloading files, right?"

Sound silly? Is it you? At the risk of sounding "salesy," get on PitchEngine and create a shareable, social release from the start. Hundreds of PR firms are already making the complete switch away from Microsoft Office to our cloud-based platform. Think of it this way, you wouldn't create a post in Word and then copy and paste it into Facebook would you? (If you answered, "Yes," please disregard #4 entirely). 

5. Be creative
As PR professionals, brand managers or entrepreneurs, we should be passionate about what we're pitching. If we're not, we should be honest. Either way, if there is an "easy button" in the PR process, don't push it. Be creative and you will be rewarded.

Andrew Fowler uses humor to break the ice with journalist friends and potential PR contacts. 

"Think of the press release as the Ring in Lord of the Rings. Remember what happened to Gollum? He got super ugly and went nuts. Poor Frodo suffered too but look how happy he (and everyone) was when he finally destroyed the Ring in the depths of Mt. Doom. Rid yourself of the Ring (press release) and it will open up all kinds of possibilities to do interesting, creative and humorous things with your PR content," explains Fowler.

Think about the pitch as the new release. Make it tasty, but concise. Too much of a good thing is too much. We've already discovered that social media releases on PitchEngine are more engaging than traditional releases shared on the wires (Alexa.com)

If you give any of these methods a try, you're going to begin to see the light. If you're worth your salt as a PR pro, you have built relationships with journalists, bloggers and consumers in one form or another. Why subject them to a half-hearted effort by pushing them a press release? Send them something they can sink their teeth into and you'll see your success multiply.

6. What would you add?
How else can we kill the traditional release, once and for all? Leave your suggestions for number 6 below. 

And follow me: @jasonkintzler for continuing discussion.